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 Organization and Division

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Which Organizational Division do you favor?
Military Cell
30%
 30% [ 3 ]
Archtype Division
30%
 30% [ 3 ]
Special Operations
40%
 40% [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 10
 

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Mediz
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PostSubject: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:07 am

Ok, Our Leader, the and Head Komtur Nacht TwigDeath asked me to post options for organizational divisions for use in RP. For those who have not read my insightful and hilariously witty Welcome post, I am Nacht Medizinisch, Mediz for short, Meh for even Shorter, and N for those who don't want that last line in M. Anyhoo, enough of the meandering preamble...

There are three basic types that I want to present; Military style, Archtype Division, and Specialty Division. I will discuss the pros and cons of each. You may want to pay attention, because it will be on the test. the test counts as ten percent of your final grade for the semester.

(1) Military Cell.

This division is a straight forward Chain of Command (CoC) that puts groups of roughly 4-6 Soldats directly under the command of one Kapitan. 3-5 of these squads report directly to a General, who reports to an appropriate Elite or Komtur, if the elites are removed from the normal CoC. Seeing as the Elites are guardians of the Komturs, this might be the best solution.

Pros:
-Easy to maintain order.
-Easy to remember social status and standing.
-Delegates duties of command to various levels to take weight off the High Brass.
Cons:
-Inactive officers cause breaks in chain of command.
-No direct link between Komturs and Recruits or Soldats.
-Least inclusive of the three systems.

(2) Archtype Division.

This organizational style puts Archtypes together as borthers in arms. A decent division would be Tanker/Scrapper/Warshade, Controller/Defender, Blaster/Peacebringer. Using this system, mid level officers can be mentors to lower ranks in their Division.

Pros:
-Easier to set up larger groups.
-Least amount of logistical support needed. (Archtype determines role)
-Easier to set up training exercises.
Cons:
-No room for growth or transfer out of Division.
-Singular Divisional training is unadvisable.
-Divisions may be disproportional.

(3) Special Operational Division.

This style divides the SG into Specialty operations, or S.O.s. In the interest of keeping this basic, I will divide it into three Specialties, Operations, Support, and Combat. These three S.O.s represent metagame RP options for each individual. Operations would consist of Quartermaster, Logistics, Engineer. Support would consist of Medic, Cook, Mechanic. Combat would consist of Infantry, Artillery, Demolitions. Disproportional Divisions are normal, but this does not effect the CoC.

Pros:
-Most RP-oriented.
-Gives each member a choice, most inclusive.
-Easiest to alter after inception.
Cons:
-Needs a seperate system to track Divisions. (I.E. the Forums)
-Most complex system.
-May be difficult to fill needed roles. (Like Custodial.)

There we have it, all three basic systems I am proposing. Now, since I am the one writing this, I suppose I get the right to vote for my choice *RIGHT IN THE POST*! I am strongly in favor of the Special Operations system for the following reasons.
-I believe it best fits our goals.
-I believe it melds best into the game system itself.
-I believe it will allow for the most variety of "incidental RP", Rp that happens at the drop of a hat.
-I believe i am right. (What? It's true...)

Anyway, I will post a poll for this. Feel free to add any suggestions or comments. I welcome all ideas.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:29 am

I am torn between the Military Cell and Special Operations...

The Special Operations is nice and all, but nobody wants to be a Superhero cook.

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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:39 am

A lot of this sounds great but I'm a bit confused on.. what it is? Do you see the three of these as types of division systems we could use? Or something to implement to the SG as a whole? I'll vote when I have a clearer understanding.

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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:20 am

First off, let me just say that I am very impressed with this write-up, Med.


That said; personally, I lean towards the Archetypal Organisation.

Though the 'Military Cell' type is straightforward, I've always felt that it is rather too impersonal; you are assigned a division, and that's where you are. I also, as a komtur, dislike the very large distance between the high ranks and the low ranks.

For the Special Operations type of division, I feel like it is an excellent idea in concept, but difficult in execution. Not only am I relatively certain that some of the more menial or less glamorous roles would never be filled, but I am hesitant to go with a method of organisation that is heavy on, and geared towards, RP. We are an RP supergroup, yes, but we still do support and welcome non-RPers.

The Archetypal method of organisation, however, I like very much. Separating classes, or groups of classes, gives every group a bond, as well as all but forcing the groups to comingle to form effective teams; bonding individuals into groups, and encouraging cooperation between the groups. There is still room for RP both in and out of the divisions, without alienating the non-RPers.

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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:10 am

I feel that both the archetypal and special operative modes of organisation would work fairly well.

However, given only one option to vote for, I voted for Special Operations.

In hindsight, and given further thought I probably would have changed my vote for organisation along archtype.
  • Although would an archetypal mode of organisation require a 'Kapitan' for each archtype?
    That might complicate things a little.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:53 pm

but Dark and I were already coming up with ideas for this.. and I can't believe Twig would say that >.> after he told me to go forth and do it.. so.. bah


Edit - I read it.. after wanting to know what you had to say.... double post below..


Last edited by Killa on Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:28 pm

lol, double post!


Okay, here is what I wanted to install into The Sixth Column. For some time, I have been coming up with Divisional type of Structure System for The Sixth, so that it could help improve activity among the officers, give purposes to them, and get new recruits and soldats immediately involved by presenting a Kapitan to care for/lead them.

I didn't want to put soldats in direct Archtype segregation, I wanted to install Special Ops, and I also wanted just to have divisions, which could be transfered around.

How you say?

Well my idea (which Dark believed to be too.. complex lol) would look something like this...

Head Komtur - Leader of The Sixth Column. Commands the entire Sixth Column, and leads 2 Assistant Komturs.

Assistant
Komtur - Secondary Komtur. Leads Commands, that separates two purposes
that are required to run the Sixth. Leads Elite Guards that run
Divisions inside their Commands.

Elite Guards - Person Guardians
to the Komturs, and assistants to job requirements. Leads Divisions
that supply special functions for the Sixth Column such as events and
gatherings. The also lead Generals, who run Squadrons inside their
Divisions.

Generals- Commanders of Squadrons and specific
functions inside Divisions. They lead events and are the stepping block
for soldats to report to. They also Lead Kapitans who run Teams inside
their Squads.

Kapitans - Leader of Teams. They provide soldats
assigned to their team assistance. They lead team events and make sure
their soldats get involved in The Sixth Column.



So I seperated Two Commands, lead by Komtur Leiter and Killa (myself), Combat and Structure.

Structure Command has a special purpose of the Sixth Column to manage, the rules, Basic Training, Officer Training, handling new recruits until they are passed to the next division, and maintaining the Structure System.

Combat Command has the obvious purpose of distrubuting Officers and Soldats into divisions, squadrons and teams. And leading those groups to keep activity, run events and pass news down the chain of command.

The Structure Command has no divisions, except has The Training Squadron and the Disciplinary Officer.

The Combat Command has 2 Divisions (as I see it) lead by the Elite Guards. Medical Division and Battle Division. (Since The Sixth Column lacks defenders) The Medical Division, ran by Elite Guard Shinteki, is the direct leader of the Medic Team. The Battle Division, lead by Elite Guard Karnie will have progressively the largest amount assigned, due to it's purpose, fighting.
Being lead by two Generals, Light and Falcon, being leaders of their Squadrons, are assigned 2 Kapitans each. Then assigned to these Team Leaders, Kapitans, is soldats, no specific purpose, but I have the idea of Patrol and Front Line. 4 teams, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie & Delta.

Kapitans lead their teams, attempt to get involved and make their soldats active. Generals lead their squadrons, attempting to get their Kapitans involved and active. Elite Guards lead the entire Division, and attempt to get everyone focused on being active and involved more with Sixth Activities, directly or indirectly. Komturs are pretty much busy with Structure, Rules, Organizing and leading the Sixth Column, at the same time, trying to keep their Elite Guards and Generals focused on their duties.

(this idea is based on what resources we have available at this moment)

It seems it would be complex, but let me explain why this is my idea..

The title Elite Guard has lost its role. Back in 2004, Elite Guard (or Elite Kaptain) was the soul of the leadership, and did all the commanding while the Komturs sat back and just approved/disapproved of ideas. Elite Guards were no longer needed in this role, when the Komturs stepped back into commanding roles and did this work themselves.

The title Kapitan is just a stepping stone to General/Elite Guard or Komtur.. or is it? The title of Kaptain has been given to soldat after soldat and unless they were given the rank General or higher, they would rarely stick around (not all left of course.. but hit happens more than not). The purpose of having a Kapitan is almost meaningless.

Now, this system has been around since 2004, and it has always been needing major fixes and improvement with a sound system. The only problem was, that it never could get off first base, since the current members were use to an older style of operation.. that it never got into habit.

What I am trying to do is, give each Rank a significant purpose, with a job to do, and help motivate the Sixth into progressive growth. This minor setback has been around for a while, and I'd normally want to keep it hush hush, because the less soldats knew, they would try to make rank, not knowing that Kapitan rank came with barely any respect and leadership ability.

If you guys can see what I am thinking that is fine. If not, I will provide a less confusing visual aid. lol

And again, this structure was thought up with the knowledge of our current resources available.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:02 pm

I like that Killa it makes plenty sense and you're right on. The complexity comes with all the sub divisions though, subdivision after subdivision, inside a division is a squad, inside a squad is a group, inside a group is a team, ect., if at all possible I think cutting back on subdivisions if possible would make this even better.

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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:17 pm

I have it set up so you can delete your vote, and vote on multiple answers. This is just a divergent organizational chart for the RPers. It's sole purpose is to build camaraderie amongst the troops.

Also, Killa has a good organizational idea himself, a combination of Military Cell, and Special Operations. I wanted to keep them separate for simplicity, but he's got the one I believe can be implemented best, overall. It *does* limit Komtur/Soldat communication a little, but if we just institute a -very- non-military Open-Door policy it would work great.

From the storyline aspect, I can see us implementing this system for one very good reason: It is the exact opposite of what the Fifth Column does. The Fifth Column, like many fascist groups, prefers to keep their lower ranks in line with fear, abuse, and a lack of voice and rights. The Sixth Column being disillusioned with this, lets the leaders and grunts comingle to create loyalty based on respect and admiration.

All in all, I believe Killa did a great job on his, and i'm just gonna throw my logistical support behind him...I am sure that us working together would get much more done on this that us working apart.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:47 pm

Special Operations Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:48 pm

I'm willing to see where you're going with this. I happen to share Twig's concern about excessive subdivision, but I'm willing to wait to pass judgment until we have a firmer outline... and until Killa starts using a readable font size.

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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:02 pm

Divisions aren't meant to break Command structure down, although they do make little things like inspecting uniforms and such much more simple. A general from say, Red Division, would be able to order a Soldat from Blue Division just as easily as he would order a soldat from his own.

The main objective of divisions are this: Activity. Being in a Division will give a soldat a easy way of feeling like part of something more than just The Sixth. To put it simple, divisions offer more to a sg with them then one without. PvP nights against divisions, Missions assigned by Komturs for all Divisions to compete to succeed in, so on and so forth. They also help for roleplaying aspects, if we ever set up a "Sg Battle" night, where the entire supergroup joins in a common fight like say, destroying Striga Shocked

Archtype and Special divisions are interesting, but they do nothing to support this. If we divide to archtypes, you can forget division pvp competition, cause the balance is completely thrown off, and the fight would be frankly unfun. They're good ideas, but a dividing like Killa has stated is something i've always supported, it just offers more that we can do WITH Divisions, not just a cool idea for Divisions.

You have to keep the real question in mind: What can this offer to The Sixth? Without going into a long rant on what kind of activities each type of Division can create, it's clear that Killa's way would spark the most.

O and as for teams within the division, chain of command, etc etc etc; We give the structure, and the leaders of that Division, the Elite Guards, can figure out the rest.

The idea of Divisions are to elaborate on the already established structure of The Sixth Column, and honestly to give us more shit to do lol. Elite Guards will have their works ahead, because they'll basically be heading a tiny SG within the SG, and its entirely up to them to decide how the people placed in their Division are utilized. Komturs are gods, they control EVERYTHING, including all 3 divisions(how many there would be atm), and can call upon any Division, or person, in the sg for their bidding.

Sorry for the incosistency of this post, but I think you all know my side on the Division debate lol, I've only been forcing it on you for the last 3 years Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:29 am

Now, sub-divisions are a must. Didn't I explain to you that? I have a picture in case you were needing a visual aid. >.>

Right now, we have enough resources to start this up.

As for the supporting posts: I believe this idea is some what the only Division idea we can get close to that still has the two basic commands that separate the Training and actual forces, RP or Not, the BT and DO do not go in Combat.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:48 pm

While we certainly have the resources now that the Column has witnessed expansion, and I do greatly enjoy Killa's idea, we cannot implement it for some time still.

Even though we have the man-power, we do not have all the ranks filled in the have three divisions raring to go. We have the Komturs and the EGs, yes, but we have only two Generals, and I don't know how few Kapitans...

I feel that there's no need to rush a decision or get ahead of ourselves by trying to put this into effect until we have enough officers.

This is almost off topic, but I felt it was important to say. Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:15 pm

Though, you are saying, "we must not rush a decision" and knowing we don't exactly have "all" the resources to fill an entire 2 Elite Guards Division setup, I went ahead and noted, that we will have enough to fill teams up, and just because we "don't" have all the ranks, doesn't mean we won't.

The fact that we delay the decisions (and this wasn't a vote for you guys anyway.. Mediz did it on his own, and it's not suppose to be a vote) the planning is already going into effect, the only thing to stop it, is the delay of fine tuning it.

We will implement the structure, and eventually fill the missing ranks "after" we have it already running (unless we promote Soldats to Kaptain between the time of course).

And though you may not understand why I want to push it quicker, the only reason is, if we wait (like we have in the past) to setup fully based on trying to fill the ranks.. we won't get into habit of working that way, and we will eventually fall away from it (happens every time) because soldats need to 'start' in that rhythm or else they won't get into it at all..

See where this is going?

YES, I understand, we do need more Kapitans to fill up for Teams, but don't you think we, the Komturs, have already discussed this? We know we lack what ranks, and where we need to get stronger. I don't want to spoil more Falcon.. -.- so please, just accept it.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:51 pm

k. You're the boss, not me. I'm just throwing ideas out there. If it's a bad idea, fine. But one day, I might catch something good. Might.

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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:10 pm

Heh. NP NP.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:21 am

i realy like the idea killa, but as of who would be the new kaptain is the question, we only have a few soldats that have passed BT, would we also promote those who havent? just throwing this out there
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:17 pm

Those who have not been through Basic Training are not full members of The Sixth Column. Once through, they will be soldats, and only then will they progress through the ranks.

If they do not attend BT or sign up etc. then I won't be promoting them.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:43 pm

Offizers are always watching for soldats to consider for promotions, filling in the missing ranks is never a problem. Killa's right, this has to be started right now, as soon as possible, or else people will forget about it and no one will attempt anything, again like killa said lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:31 am

Alrighty im with ya on this
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:33 am

With a few adds and removals of the current idea, I am working with Twig on this to make it as good as it can get. I am hoping by next weekend to begin implementing this system upon our great Column.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:42 am

Thats great killa, cant wait
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:10 pm

This was just an opinion poll to help out those who are building this. Killa showed me his organizational chart, and it blew me away.
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PostSubject: Re: Organization and Division   Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:04 pm

Thanks for the support guys. I'm going to finish the issues on it. and We'll have this going in no time. Soon we'll be having fun >.> I hope.
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