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Peace
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PostSubject: New old idea   Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:16 pm

A couple days ago I was talking to Leiter and Twig on vent and as always we ended up on the "how to make the sixth column awesome" topic.

We agreed that the only real reason the sixth column has every had a problem becoming a major supergroup was our recruitment requirements. Well I've always had ideas on how to fix this but for some reason or another they never come out, or don't work right.

My suggestion this time was to simply create an additional supergroup to the sixth column. This "Sixth Column Mercenaries" supergroup would be a regular group (for roleplayers and normal players alike) that allowed anyone into the sg with any character they want. The initial problem with this would be that it would take away from the regular Sixth Column, but if implimented correctly I think it would only increase members.

The trick would be that a person with only members in "Sixth Column Mercenaries", while being a member of the group and being able to do everything that comes with that (use the base(Sixth Column Merc. would be coalated of course), use forums, vent, ect. ect.), they would only be at the rank of mercenary(at the same level of recruit but different title as to not affend the toucheys). This means they would be inelligable for promotions, and would stay at that rank until they join the real Sixth Column with a Nacht character.

Sixth Column Mercenaries would be treated as a startup supergroup/alt supergroup. It would give us a place to put our nonnachts and a way to recruit people who are reluctant about the requirements of the first group.

I know i was asked to write this up a couple days ago, but I've been on the job hunt and last night my brother was admitted into the hospital with what they thought was appendicitis. Turns out he had a birth defect that made some kind of bonding between his stomach and his intestine, an extremely rare birth defect that there is no test for, the only reason they found it was because they went in to remove his apendix and saw the defect. This was what has been causing the multiple stomach problems he has had (chronic stomach pain, what we thought was lactose intolerance, ect.), and now I feel bad cause I gave him so much crap for it lol.
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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:53 pm

Sorry to hear that Peace.

But, I do like this idea. However my main concern is that perhaps the people get to know us, and we make friends with them, but they still don't wish to make a Sixth Columnists. In that case I want to make it so that this "mercenaries" group is a totally functioning supergroup to be in. Of course it is a side supergroup, but I don't think we should half-ass it or use it as JUST a recruitment measure.

Anyways, I like the idea and we will implement it when we've ironed it out. I think step #1 should probably be.. A name Razz

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:03 pm

I love this idea. It might make the people in this mercenaries group -want- to be apart of the real deal. It would help them realize that a new character isn't a big price to play with helpful and friendly people.

And i'm sorry about your inconvenience Peace. :/ Hope your brother's doing fine and I hope the job search goes well. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:25 pm

That's really bad about your brother, man. But don't feel bad for giving him crap, you didn't know.

This SG idea has been tossed around before, I think, but regardless, I think it'd be great. Besides, I wouldn't worry about people not wanting to be in the real Sixth... If they decide to make an alt, they will surely consider a Nacht for at least one of them. I support this idea.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:40 pm

i hope your brother gets better peacey-poo

and it sounds liek an okay idea if we did it the right way

not that i know what teh right way would be >.>
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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:33 pm

I echo all the sentiments about your brother, Peace, I hope everything turns out okay.

Like others have said here, I support this idea (though I might push for a better name Wink ). I would also second earlier statements that we shouldn't use this solely as a recruiting tactic. Like Falcon said, if we get to know people through 'Column Paragon' or whatever we name this thing, odds are they'll make a Nacht at some point or another. I also would love to have a place to put all my non-Nachts, to give them a safe and loving home and also anewbasetodecorateyay.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:41 pm

o one other benefit for this....
Another Base.
YEAH.

and i see no reason why it shouldn't just be called "Sixth Column Mercs."(not spelling it out for risk of Leiter being a grammawhore(TM)). It ties it in with the official group, makes them feel like an actual member while not being a full one....and it just makes sense.

O and i just got hired today (WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO VIRTUAL BEERS ALL AROUND ON ME!!!(refer to cheers'ing smileys in sig(btw anyone notice how there are SIX of them? YES that was on purpose.))

And my brothers doing good, just on morphine, which i find hilarious
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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:55 pm

Cause that name is dumb.
So as I said.

Step #1 on this:

A name

GO

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:36 am

Even though I was joking before, I kind of like 'Column Paragon'.

Also, Peace; it's spelled Mercenaries. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:51 am

I really dig column Paragon.

There's always good ol' fashion The Column

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:17 am

I am understandably biased against 'The Column'. I think 'Column Paragon' evokes both a connection with us and a broader opening to Paragon as a whole.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:24 am

Column Paragon has such a ring to it. Like, the name is good enough that it could stand alone without a connection to us, but it IS, and that's why it rocks.

Still brainstorming.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:34 am

Possible names:


  • Sixth Column Mercenaries
  • Column Paragon
  • The Column
  • Column Six (By the way, in one of the possible Sixth mission arcs I have in my head, there'll be a group of us called the Column Six.)
  • Designation 6C
  • Sixth Expanded
  • ...?

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:38 am

I'm not hearing it. But I'm not a Komtur, so if that's what you want, go for it. I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your word to the death. ( Yes, I am aware the quote is modified )

Also, I find the term "grammawhore(TM)" to be insulting, as "gramma" is obviously a direct attack on Rhode Island accents. I kindly ask you refrain from using this, or I will be forced to sue you in a court of law.

Also, what about: Sixth Column Reservists

Or something like that?

Another question: Who would be in the Column Six?

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:29 am

Wouldn't you like to know?

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:31 pm

Okay, so here's how this will work.

Functions of this 'Mercenary' SG affiliation of the Sixth Column.

The Sixth Core?

Anyway, to make this work, the SG will be ran by a Sixth ranked officer in order to keep balance. Their status will be Columnist. Along the lines, their ranks are based on prestige earned while a part of the SG.

Ranks :

Leader - Columnist - Ranked Officer in charge.
Highest Merc Rank - Legend - prestige depending or time in SG.
Next Highest - Bounty Hunter - " "
2nd Rank - Mercenary - Prestige.
Lowest Rank - Soldier - Recruit and of course stands at the bottom until earned proper prestige to rank up.



And of course, this is not limited, having your alts or other toons will be welcomed. It is also an introduction into the RP as well, so we'll allow non-RPers to the SG, but they will not progress past Mercenary or Bounty Hunter rank.

---------Page break---------


Leiter, I uh... wanted to let you know.. uh... something lol, but I'll tell you in another forum access higher than general Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:56 pm

Uh oh, Killa, am I pregnant?

----Back on topic-----

I would advocate against having it be an RP supergroup at all. Leave it as a generic supergroup and let it be what it be, if you will. If they want the RP aspects of being in the Sixth Column, then they can join the Sixth Column. If anything, I think this should just be a plain old supergroup, that is affiliated with us and run by us, to get people to know us and to get them interested in other things we do; ie, the Sixth Column.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:59 pm

I also advocate against placing an officer in charge of this SG... I think it would be better to use an alt of someone's to officially lead it, so that our Columnists can stay in the Column. If you were insistent on it being a Columnist, I would suggest establishing a "Recruitment Officer" specifically for this task.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:03 pm

Giving people the ability to rise in ranks in this supergroup makes it a separate group. Every regular Sixth Column officer should have the chance to have one ranked character in this group, just like the other. It should be controlled by the same komturs, the same generals, the same kaptains. The only difference will be the members possibly. Its basically as if we just CREATED a merc. rank in our regular supergroup and invited people and left them at that rank, since on sixth soldats can become sixth officers not the people the sixth column hires. Only reason I don't say do that is a) ranks are right in the sg. and b) you'd end up with 10000000000 mercs. and 3 soldats, this way getting a member for either group assists the other. Thats why im calling it the merc. group, because where as role playing isnt required and in reality its a way for us to be released from the rp aspects of the regular Sixth, it in itself has a role in the rp of the Sixth(damn mercs. we've hired for our cause, the end.)

I feel like for some reason this has strayed away from an extension to an entirely new sg.

This should be nothing other than a filler group, or an initiation group, anything more would hender the regular supergroup. Also i can already see people concentrating on this sg if its associated by itself more than the regular, then eventually ditching the regular Sixth Column.

This isn't a elaborate plan to make The Sixth Column a generic supergroup, if you all feel thats what you want then do THAT. This is just a way to make recruitment and progression easier. So naming it other then "Sixth Column (something suggesting they are part of but not really(MERCS.))" is building a new group. You forget people are stupid, they won't make a connection between "Column Paragon" and "The Sixth Column" other than the both supergroups have the word Column in their name.

Also remember when we refer to our little group we say "The Sixth" not "The Column". so using the column part of the name doesn't really make sense if your trying to build a connection to the regular supergroup, so if you HAVE to name it something other than "The Sixth (Column) Mercs." then make it "The Sixth ____".

And don't whine like children about not wanting to name it something like that because any OTHER type of name makes it a NEW GROUP.
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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:12 pm

With all respect due, Peace, I disagree.

I think a name like Column Paragon connects it to the Sixth Column (which I do refer to as the Column more often than the Sixth, by the way) even while being different.

We don't WANT a second Sixth Column (I don't think) and we don't want people necessarily looking at this second group and saying "Oh look, it's the Sixth Column some more." Part of the whole point of this was to get people to put their door in a place that we can put our foot in it, so to speak. If they automatically associate this new group with the Sixth, they might as well just be noticing the Sixth. If it's something else, however, with an interesting enough name that they say, "Huh, that's a cool name, wonder what the people in that supergroup are like," that gets them interested in us, which we use to put our foot in their now-conveniently-placed door.

There's also the factor, which I know has been brought up before when we've thrown this idea around, of the association between name, uniform, and supergroup. Right now, if you have the Sixth Column name under your character's name, that character name MUST begin with Nacht. That sets us apart and is a core value of the supergroup. If we go out and name this sister group 'Sixth Column Mercenaries' or whatnot, that puts the Sixth Column name with any random name, and people, who are, as you said, stupid, will not be able to tell the difference between the Sixth Column, with name and uniform requirements, and the Sixth Column Mercenaries, who accept anybody. You said that Column Paragon was too different, but I believe the opposite is true. I think Sixth Column Mercenaries is too similar, and would be confusing for the uninitiated.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:35 pm

Nacht Falcon wrote:
I also advocate against placing an officer in charge of this SG... I think it would be better to use an alt of someone's to officially lead it, so that our Columnists can stay in the Column. If you were insistent on it being a Columnist, I would suggest establishing a "Recruitment Officer" specifically for this task.

And you somehow misunderstood what I said how?

A ranked officer is going to 'lead' or help lead it, but I didn't say they'll be a Nacht Name. You disagreed with something that wasn't there ;P

I just made it a rule that.. if we're going to have something that is going to be an affiliation of the Sixth Column, that the leadership be a ranked Sixth Officer (an alt, or a lvl 50 they no longer want to play), but further discussion about who will be the 'Super Leader' Razz





Peace & Leiter -

We have already agreed to the fact that this SG is just a branch of the Sixth Column that does not require any requirements to name, costume or any of the previous Sixth no-nos Razz

With that said, this SG still has to function like a SG a part of the Sixth. Prestige is a form of showing, those who aren't yet a part of the Sixth Column, have dedicated time to it. Like I said, I don't think it should have to have RPs, but we will not 'disallow' them to join.
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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:31 pm

It comes to this. Either you want to use this as PURELY a way to build The Sixth Column, with no concern for this group being anything other than allowing us to invite anyone into this group for what is pretty much a trial membership, or you want it to be a functioning group separate to The Sixth Column thats simply run by the same leaders(which will change if you go the second way).

I know I act like I know everything, and thats partially cause I know almost everything, at least when it comes to expecting what people will do. If you go with Leiters idea, even something as simple as naming this group something different, will slowly but surely divert everyones attention and work to this new group, ditching The Sixth Column. If thats what you want fine, but just DO THAT, don't waste time.

Now if you actually want this to simply focus on building The Sixth Column, then name it The Sixth Column Mercenaries (anything else changes the fact that the two groups aren't actually two groups they are THE SAME), allow any officer one actual member in the group with a rank so their officer duties carry over to the group (reinforcing the fact that these supergroups are in fact THE SAME, one just has different requirements and gives different privileges), and make a rank for member of this group (Mercenary, the equivilent of a recruit but SPECIAL so they don't feel all put down and crap but do feel the pressure to join the regular group).

Now again, I'm not a komtur anymore. I havn't been for a long time. I just state my opinions, because as far as I've seen, you listen. I state my ideas because I do want the group to succeed. So do what you want, but don't half ass it cause you don't want people to see your real agenda, cause I will. I know most of you have stated your dislike for roleplaying, but thats what always made the sixth column fun to me. A bunch of nonroleplayers ROLEPLAYING (it was almost like a slap to roleplayers, specially since we not only did it BETTER than most rpsgs but we had more FUN cause it was a big joke).

Also keep in mind its not a Liberty supergroup anymore. Its a Virtue supergroup. You have to have some elements of roleplay, because its a roleplay server and thats what apeals to the masses.

Think about what little new members have joined since the move to Virtue, they were ALL looking for a roleplay experience. You don't wanna do that anymore? Move to freedom and make Column Paragon, or whatever the hell else you wanna name it.
There you have it, do it any other way and its being half assed and will hinder the progress of something, or ultimately destroy both ideas.
So:
Column Paragon
or
The Sixth Column (and the mercenary sg.)
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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:07 pm

Killa, I first apologize for the misunderstanding of what you said. I was under the impression, when you said a "Sixth Officer", that you literally meant an officer from the Sixth Column, i.e., a Nacht. So, I'm sorry for disagreeing with what didn't exist, but look on the bright side... I was on your side anyways.

As for what Twig and Peace have said, I have to agree. Putting too distant a relation to the Sixth Column will cause it to not -be- part of the Sixth Column. Yet at the same time, Leiter is correct in saying we must get the people to put their door where we can easily fit our foot in. What Leiter fails to realize is, by creating this SG, we are moving our foot to their door, clad in combat boot. By making this SG, which is an integral part of the Sixth, people will say, "Hey, lookit that, it's the Sixth Column again. Oh, wait, I don't have to make an alt just to join you? Sure, why not, I'll give it a go." Thus, I believe it is best to go with something like "Sixth Column Mercenaries". Though honestly, I think there are more attractive words than Mercenaries.

Brainstorm, gogogo.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:22 pm

Peace, stop with the ultimatums, man. Saying 'do this or you fail' isn't particularly conducive to a productive discussion.

-----

The issue that I see with 6CMercenaries is that those people who would never consider the 6C in the first place won't consider 6CMercenaries, but they would consider Column Paragon, because it -isn't- immediately apparent that it's affiliated, it's not blatantly obvious as the 6C name under the character name, and it's an entirely non-RP group. If we go with 6CMercenaries, we'd almost have to make it a secondary Sixth Column, because it will be -too- close, and anything that 6CMercenaries did would immediately reflect and be attributed to the 6C; including lack of name and uniform requirements.

Basically, my issue with the 6CMercenaries idea (or 6CAuxiliary, or 6CReserve, or whatever) is that it would attract the same crowd that 6C would. Having a slightly more distant SG would bring in those people that might never look twice at the 6C itself, unless they're brought round to the idea in an unexpected way, i.e., through Column Paragon.

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PostSubject: Re: New old idea   Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:30 pm

So what your saying is you want to make a supergroup that isnt the Sixth Column to attract people who weren't interested in the Sixth Column.

That is EXACTLY what this does, and thats what we advertise it as.

"Come join the Sixth Column and be awesome. O, your not sure about the requirements? Fine join this group we've made specially for you so you can see how awesome we are."
"O you see now and wanna make a nacht to be part of the real group? Ok awesome!!"

Thats how it happens. I do not support making a group with even a slightly different name because what I said before will happen. Anything else no longer is The Sixth Column, and is an entirely different group in its own aspects. If we do that, how do you justify the restrictions on that group? You don't, because they're is no tie in to The Sixth Column, and therefore should be no pressure to join it. I'd WANT them to feel pressure, because your not recruiting them for Column Paragon, your recruiting them for The Sixth Column, and if they were never going to join The Sixth Column, then they shouldn't bother joining the other.

And its not a ultimatum, cause I'm not threatening anyone with anything, I'm just telling you the choice and the reprecussion of both actions. The last paragraph was more of what I'd do for both plans, to put them into effect most...effectively....
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